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	<title>Comments on: The future of West Berkeley: an open letter</title>
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	<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2009/12/03/the-future-of-west-berkeley-an-open-letter/</link>
	<description>News and notes on our city</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:05:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Lance Knobel</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2009/12/03/the-future-of-west-berkeley-an-open-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-405</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Knobel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=1245#comment-405</guid>
		<description>The article is clearly labelled an &quot;open letter&quot;. That signals to me, at least, that it&#039;s a viewpoint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article is clearly labelled an &#8220;open letter&#8221;. That signals to me, at least, that it&#8217;s a viewpoint.</p>
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		<title>By: Becky O'Malley</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2009/12/03/the-future-of-west-berkeley-an-open-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-404</link>
		<dc:creator>Becky O'Malley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=1245#comment-404</guid>
		<description>You should identify Michael Goldin as a major property owner in West Berkeley whose holdings would directly profit from the kind of zoning changes he and his allies tout.  It&#039;s misleading to label an advocacy piece like this one, which would be perfectly appropriate if the writer&#039;s financial interest were clearly revealed, a &quot;story&quot; in the usual sense of the term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should identify Michael Goldin as a major property owner in West Berkeley whose holdings would directly profit from the kind of zoning changes he and his allies tout.  It&#8217;s misleading to label an advocacy piece like this one, which would be perfectly appropriate if the writer&#8217;s financial interest were clearly revealed, a &#8220;story&#8221; in the usual sense of the term.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Henderson</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2009/12/03/the-future-of-west-berkeley-an-open-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-355</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Henderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 13:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=1245#comment-355</guid>
		<description>Citing Robert Gammon&#039;s ridiculous &quot;article&quot; in the Express harms Mr. Goldin&#039;s arguments. Here&#039;s my letter to the Express, published a couple of weeks ago:

Robert Gammon&#039;s ageism (&quot;old hippies&quot; stuck in a &quot;time warp&quot;) and easily flung accusations of &quot;NIMBY&quot; in his opinion piece, &quot;Activists Try to Block Green Tech in Berkeley,&quot; reflect his ignorance, prejudice, and laziness. The issues in West Berkeley facing decision makers are complicated and deserve a better journalistic platform — certainly more than the stereotyping and name-calling by Mr. Gammon.There was applause for speakers voicing concerns with the city&#039;s proposed changes to the West Berkeley Plan at the November 4 Planning Commission workshop, but I heard no &quot;ridiculing and heckling of anyone who disagreed with them,&quot; from the audience. (Though I did smile to myself once when I heard the phrase, &quot;Developers&#039; fair share.&quot;)It would be nice to see an intelligent, thoughtful, and balanced article in the Express about West Berkeley. Speakers brought valid concerns and research-based information to the commission for consideration. Gammon ignores that &quot;green&quot; businesses providing living-wage jobs (and better) have been around for decades in West Berkeley. The diverse use here is appealing and worth being preserved. No one is fighting to prevent change or progress — we&#039;re speaking up for new development along with the preservation and expansion of what is working. I find it negligent that in the middle of this huge economic downturn brought about by unregulated, laissez-faire policies and practices, that anyone would think that opening the doors wide to market forces (green or otherwise) is a good choice. There is a balance to be struck.

Susan Henderson, Berkeley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Citing Robert Gammon&#8217;s ridiculous &#8220;article&#8221; in the Express harms Mr. Goldin&#8217;s arguments. Here&#8217;s my letter to the Express, published a couple of weeks ago:</p>
<p>Robert Gammon&#8217;s ageism (&#8220;old hippies&#8221; stuck in a &#8220;time warp&#8221;) and easily flung accusations of &#8220;NIMBY&#8221; in his opinion piece, &#8220;Activists Try to Block Green Tech in Berkeley,&#8221; reflect his ignorance, prejudice, and laziness. The issues in West Berkeley facing decision makers are complicated and deserve a better journalistic platform — certainly more than the stereotyping and name-calling by Mr. Gammon.There was applause for speakers voicing concerns with the city&#8217;s proposed changes to the West Berkeley Plan at the November 4 Planning Commission workshop, but I heard no &#8220;ridiculing and heckling of anyone who disagreed with them,&#8221; from the audience. (Though I did smile to myself once when I heard the phrase, &#8220;Developers&#8217; fair share.&#8221;)It would be nice to see an intelligent, thoughtful, and balanced article in the Express about West Berkeley. Speakers brought valid concerns and research-based information to the commission for consideration. Gammon ignores that &#8220;green&#8221; businesses providing living-wage jobs (and better) have been around for decades in West Berkeley. The diverse use here is appealing and worth being preserved. No one is fighting to prevent change or progress — we&#8217;re speaking up for new development along with the preservation and expansion of what is working. I find it negligent that in the middle of this huge economic downturn brought about by unregulated, laissez-faire policies and practices, that anyone would think that opening the doors wide to market forces (green or otherwise) is a good choice. There is a balance to be struck.</p>
<p>Susan Henderson, Berkeley</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Lord</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2009/12/03/the-future-of-west-berkeley-an-open-letter/comment-page-1/#comment-342</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Lord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=1245#comment-342</guid>
		<description>Mr. Goldin,

You are bringing up an important debate.  I disagree rather sharply with your perspective but perhaps you can persuade me, or vice versa.   So, I have some questions for you and thoughts to share.

First, let&#039;s talk about urban density and its impact on exurban &quot;sprawl&quot;.  It seems to me that your position starts with an assumption:  You assume that increasing density in cities will decrease sprawl.  That seems counter-intuitive to me, for reasons I&#039;ll explain.   Can you offer any evidence for your view?  or explain the reasoning behind your hypothesis?

Here some reasons why I think density projects (as currently conceived) are likely to make sprawl worse:

Perhaps the most important concept is the economic notion of &quot;substitute&quot;.  One product is a substitute for another if someone inclined to buy A would seriously consider buying B, instead.  For example, frozen filo dough is in some cases a substitute for quantities of flour, oil, vinegar, and perhaps eggs.  More directly, lattes from cafes A and B, across the street from one another, might mutually substitute.   Frozen filo can be so good, at a reasonable price, that significantly less flour is sold.  Cafe A can beat B on, say, price or service to such a large extent that B goes out of business.

It seems to me that any claim that density projects fight sprawl must assume that densely built urban dwellings substitute for dwellings in the exurbs.  We have to assume that, in large numbers, people will decide &quot;I was planning to buy in the exurbs, but that condo next to the train station enticed me away.&quot;

I don&#039;t see that happening, do you?  The densest urban environments seem to attract transient students and professionals who are briefly staging (often before buying the exurbs) along-side singles and lower-income households.   Housing consumers don&#039;t seem much inclined to substitute one for the other.

Worse, the presence of an economically vibrant, dense urban hub seems to my eyes (and, no, I can&#039;t prove it) = to simply *increase* pressure for exurban sprawl in that region.   Sprawl doesn&#039;t develop on the cheapest land.  Sprawl develops around dense urban environments.   If that&#039;s true,  increasing the amount of economic activity in the heart of a city will have the opposite effect of what you want: it will increase sprawl.

On a related point, you argue for density projects today to build up funding for public transportation.  It seems to me that you have two problems, there:  The first problem is the assumption that more riders, rather than lower costs, is the more efficient improvement.  The second problem is that increased ridership is only a net environmental improvement if it significantly outpaces the rate of regional population growth.   For example, if bus ridership doubles but car miles &lt;i&gt;also&lt;/i&gt; double - it&#039;s a net loss.   Can you point to any example, anywhere, of a density project comparable to what you favor for West Berkeley actually demonstrably reducing regional emissions?

I&#039;ll stop there, for now.   I have more questions but that&#039;s a place to start.

Thanks,
-t</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Goldin,</p>
<p>You are bringing up an important debate.  I disagree rather sharply with your perspective but perhaps you can persuade me, or vice versa.   So, I have some questions for you and thoughts to share.</p>
<p>First, let&#8217;s talk about urban density and its impact on exurban &#8220;sprawl&#8221;.  It seems to me that your position starts with an assumption:  You assume that increasing density in cities will decrease sprawl.  That seems counter-intuitive to me, for reasons I&#8217;ll explain.   Can you offer any evidence for your view?  or explain the reasoning behind your hypothesis?</p>
<p>Here some reasons why I think density projects (as currently conceived) are likely to make sprawl worse:</p>
<p>Perhaps the most important concept is the economic notion of &#8220;substitute&#8221;.  One product is a substitute for another if someone inclined to buy A would seriously consider buying B, instead.  For example, frozen filo dough is in some cases a substitute for quantities of flour, oil, vinegar, and perhaps eggs.  More directly, lattes from cafes A and B, across the street from one another, might mutually substitute.   Frozen filo can be so good, at a reasonable price, that significantly less flour is sold.  Cafe A can beat B on, say, price or service to such a large extent that B goes out of business.</p>
<p>It seems to me that any claim that density projects fight sprawl must assume that densely built urban dwellings substitute for dwellings in the exurbs.  We have to assume that, in large numbers, people will decide &#8220;I was planning to buy in the exurbs, but that condo next to the train station enticed me away.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see that happening, do you?  The densest urban environments seem to attract transient students and professionals who are briefly staging (often before buying the exurbs) along-side singles and lower-income households.   Housing consumers don&#8217;t seem much inclined to substitute one for the other.</p>
<p>Worse, the presence of an economically vibrant, dense urban hub seems to my eyes (and, no, I can&#8217;t prove it) = to simply *increase* pressure for exurban sprawl in that region.   Sprawl doesn&#8217;t develop on the cheapest land.  Sprawl develops around dense urban environments.   If that&#8217;s true,  increasing the amount of economic activity in the heart of a city will have the opposite effect of what you want: it will increase sprawl.</p>
<p>On a related point, you argue for density projects today to build up funding for public transportation.  It seems to me that you have two problems, there:  The first problem is the assumption that more riders, rather than lower costs, is the more efficient improvement.  The second problem is that increased ridership is only a net environmental improvement if it significantly outpaces the rate of regional population growth.   For example, if bus ridership doubles but car miles <i>also</i> double &#8211; it&#8217;s a net loss.   Can you point to any example, anywhere, of a density project comparable to what you favor for West Berkeley actually demonstrably reducing regional emissions?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll stop there, for now.   I have more questions but that&#8217;s a place to start.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
-t</p>
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