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	<title>Comments on: Comment: Why Berkeley must revisit its approval for new home construction on Rose Street</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/02/25/comment-why-berkeley-must-revisit-approval-for-new-home-construction-on-rose-street/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/02/25/comment-why-berkeley-must-revisit-approval-for-new-home-construction-on-rose-street/</link>
	<description>News and notes on our city</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:28:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Judge hears Mitch Kapor Berkeley home caseBerkeleyside &#124; Berkeleyside</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/02/25/comment-why-berkeley-must-revisit-approval-for-new-home-construction-on-rose-street/comment-page-1/#comment-14712</link>
		<dc:creator>Judge hears Mitch Kapor Berkeley home caseBerkeleyside &#124; Berkeleyside</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 15:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=3933#comment-14712</guid>
		<description>[...] Mitch Kapor and his wife Freada Kapor-Klein to construct a new house on their Rose Street lot was initially approved by Berkeley&#8217;s zoning board in January, a group of residents created the Berkeley Hills [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mitch Kapor and his wife Freada Kapor-Klein to construct a new house on their Rose Street lot was initially approved by Berkeley&#8217;s zoning board in January, a group of residents created the Berkeley Hills [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Neighbors express support for 2707 Rose Street home &#8211; Berkeleyside</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/02/25/comment-why-berkeley-must-revisit-approval-for-new-home-construction-on-rose-street/comment-page-1/#comment-2460</link>
		<dc:creator>Neighbors express support for 2707 Rose Street home &#8211; Berkeleyside</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=3933#comment-2460</guid>
		<description>[...] We published an explanation of the thinking behind the appeal, written by architect Gary Parsons, here.The original application can be viewed here and drawings associated with the application can be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] We published an explanation of the thinking behind the appeal, written by architect Gary Parsons, here.The original application can be viewed here and drawings associated with the application can be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JNG</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/02/25/comment-why-berkeley-must-revisit-approval-for-new-home-construction-on-rose-street/comment-page-1/#comment-2288</link>
		<dc:creator>JNG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=3933#comment-2288</guid>
		<description>Gary, I had my experience years ago and yes, I am well familiar with the process... they made us put up story poles, and, in fact, b/c the hearing date kept getting moved back some of them had fallen down by the time the project was finally heard.  The poles had been up for 8 MONTHS but the ZAB gave us grief b/c when they want to see the project the week before the hearing, some of them had given way to a big wind/rain storm.

Do I think this guy should have done it? Yes. But in some respects its like any other legal principle, at some point the &quot;error&quot; is not enough to hold up a whole project.  Someone somewhere with time on their hands ends up down at these hearings to complain about this or that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary, I had my experience years ago and yes, I am well familiar with the process&#8230; they made us put up story poles, and, in fact, b/c the hearing date kept getting moved back some of them had fallen down by the time the project was finally heard.  The poles had been up for 8 MONTHS but the ZAB gave us grief b/c when they want to see the project the week before the hearing, some of them had given way to a big wind/rain storm.</p>
<p>Do I think this guy should have done it? Yes. But in some respects its like any other legal principle, at some point the &#8220;error&#8221; is not enough to hold up a whole project.  Someone somewhere with time on their hands ends up down at these hearings to complain about this or that.</p>
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		<title>By: jrobertson</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/02/25/comment-why-berkeley-must-revisit-approval-for-new-home-construction-on-rose-street/comment-page-1/#comment-2268</link>
		<dc:creator>jrobertson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=3933#comment-2268</guid>
		<description>10,000 sq ft for 2 people, they should convert the 10 garage spaces for the homeless....that&#039;ll leave them with more than 2000 sq ft per person.... 
my hand is stuck in my throat...uuugh.
i thought my house was too big...
of all the places to go, they chose Berkeley???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>10,000 sq ft for 2 people, they should convert the 10 garage spaces for the homeless&#8230;.that&#8217;ll leave them with more than 2000 sq ft per person&#8230;.<br />
my hand is stuck in my throat&#8230;uuugh.<br />
i thought my house was too big&#8230;<br />
of all the places to go, they chose Berkeley???</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Lord</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/02/25/comment-why-berkeley-must-revisit-approval-for-new-home-construction-on-rose-street/comment-page-1/#comment-2151</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Lord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 08:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=3933#comment-2151</guid>
		<description>Mr. Kapor should himself request a review.
That would shorten the hearing by quite a 
bit, at the very least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Kapor should himself request a review.<br />
That would shorten the hearing by quite a<br />
bit, at the very least.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Parsons</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/02/25/comment-why-berkeley-must-revisit-approval-for-new-home-construction-on-rose-street/comment-page-1/#comment-2150</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Parsons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=3933#comment-2150</guid>
		<description>JNG: You are so right.  Many parts of the municipal code are written in a murky, hard-to-fathom language, and this passage certainly qualifies.  It could have been written to be much more clear.  If story poles were always discretionary the passage would just say that: &quot;Story poles shall be erected at the discretion of the project planner&quot;  But the fact that it says that they are required in R1-H, and then there is the discretionary clause, tells me that they are indeed required.  Staff also says that they are only used for assessing view issues.  The ordinance says nothing of the kind, and I have had to erect them for bulk concerns in the past.

In cities that do have residential design review, the projects are automatically heard in public and anyone from anywhere in the city can take a shot. That is pretty different than having surrounding neighbors sign the drawings to show that they have seen them.  Yes our process is onerous, and unfortunately when plans are shown to all of the neighbors (not a bad idea) there is often someone whose idea of their entitlement in the process outstrips the intent. Mr. Kapor shouldn&#039;t be told what kind of house to build, but he should be held responsible for letting the neighborhood know what&#039;s coming, just as others have been before him.  He should play by the same rules and receive the same treatment as everyone else.  A level playing field is all that the appeal is about, really. Many people didn&#039;t feel as if they were given a sufficient chance to understand the proposal.  Had ZAB been a little kinder, a little more reasonable, and a lot more thorough, and had the proponents been more forthcoming, there wouldn&#039;t have been an appeal.

You sound like a veteran of the process yourself.  It can really lead to toxic outcomes where neighbors and project proponents feel terrible for years afterward.  It is really difficult to handle the process in such a way that everyone feels good in the end, but I have seen that outcome too.  It is always dependent on good information, good listening and accommodation where it can be had; in fact I have seen cases where the building actually improved due to the process of engaging neighbors&#039; concerns. Sadly that outcome is by far the more rare one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JNG: You are so right.  Many parts of the municipal code are written in a murky, hard-to-fathom language, and this passage certainly qualifies.  It could have been written to be much more clear.  If story poles were always discretionary the passage would just say that: &#8220;Story poles shall be erected at the discretion of the project planner&#8221;  But the fact that it says that they are required in R1-H, and then there is the discretionary clause, tells me that they are indeed required.  Staff also says that they are only used for assessing view issues.  The ordinance says nothing of the kind, and I have had to erect them for bulk concerns in the past.</p>
<p>In cities that do have residential design review, the projects are automatically heard in public and anyone from anywhere in the city can take a shot. That is pretty different than having surrounding neighbors sign the drawings to show that they have seen them.  Yes our process is onerous, and unfortunately when plans are shown to all of the neighbors (not a bad idea) there is often someone whose idea of their entitlement in the process outstrips the intent. Mr. Kapor shouldn&#8217;t be told what kind of house to build, but he should be held responsible for letting the neighborhood know what&#8217;s coming, just as others have been before him.  He should play by the same rules and receive the same treatment as everyone else.  A level playing field is all that the appeal is about, really. Many people didn&#8217;t feel as if they were given a sufficient chance to understand the proposal.  Had ZAB been a little kinder, a little more reasonable, and a lot more thorough, and had the proponents been more forthcoming, there wouldn&#8217;t have been an appeal.</p>
<p>You sound like a veteran of the process yourself.  It can really lead to toxic outcomes where neighbors and project proponents feel terrible for years afterward.  It is really difficult to handle the process in such a way that everyone feels good in the end, but I have seen that outcome too.  It is always dependent on good information, good listening and accommodation where it can be had; in fact I have seen cases where the building actually improved due to the process of engaging neighbors&#8217; concerns. Sadly that outcome is by far the more rare one.</p>
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		<title>By: JNG</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/02/25/comment-why-berkeley-must-revisit-approval-for-new-home-construction-on-rose-street/comment-page-1/#comment-2016</link>
		<dc:creator>JNG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 00:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=3933#comment-2016</guid>
		<description>Gary: as an architect you surely are familiar with the process that makes the home owner go around the neighborhood securing signatures from EVERY living person in adjacent lots to confirm that they have seen proposed plans.  AFAIC  that&#039;s plenty of residential design review considering everyone feels entitled to throw in their 2c worth on why the plan is not to their satisfaction.  

In terms of &quot;Staff&quot; they live in their own universe where they make up the rules as they go along.  Lord forbid you should disagree with their interpretation, they&#039;ll hold you up for months.  Here the code allows them some wiggle room, however, b/c it is not entirely clear; it should have said &quot;...or IN OTHER DISTRICTS ONLY as determined necessary by the project planner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary: as an architect you surely are familiar with the process that makes the home owner go around the neighborhood securing signatures from EVERY living person in adjacent lots to confirm that they have seen proposed plans.  AFAIC  that&#8217;s plenty of residential design review considering everyone feels entitled to throw in their 2c worth on why the plan is not to their satisfaction.  </p>
<p>In terms of &#8220;Staff&#8221; they live in their own universe where they make up the rules as they go along.  Lord forbid you should disagree with their interpretation, they&#8217;ll hold you up for months.  Here the code allows them some wiggle room, however, b/c it is not entirely clear; it should have said &#8220;&#8230;or IN OTHER DISTRICTS ONLY as determined necessary by the project planner.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Parsons</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/02/25/comment-why-berkeley-must-revisit-approval-for-new-home-construction-on-rose-street/comment-page-1/#comment-1991</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Parsons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 06:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=3933#comment-1991</guid>
		<description>EBGuy: That is the chapter and verse.  It seems clear as day that Story Poles are REQUIRED in the H zone (hillside overlay), and in other zones at the discretion of the project planner.  Staff interprets the last part as meaning that story poles are always discretionary everywhere, including the H zone.  That is simply a flawed reading and the rules have certainly been applied as written to many other projects.  Just another part of the puzzle.  

JNG: As for Berkeley having too many rules, you might want to know that Berkeley is one of the few cities around these parts that DOESN&#039;T have residential design review.  Imagine that.  Maybe the rules are onerous; they certainly have been for many people for many years; but they are the rules that we have and until they change they should apply to everyone equally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EBGuy: That is the chapter and verse.  It seems clear as day that Story Poles are REQUIRED in the H zone (hillside overlay), and in other zones at the discretion of the project planner.  Staff interprets the last part as meaning that story poles are always discretionary everywhere, including the H zone.  That is simply a flawed reading and the rules have certainly been applied as written to many other projects.  Just another part of the puzzle.  </p>
<p>JNG: As for Berkeley having too many rules, you might want to know that Berkeley is one of the few cities around these parts that DOESN&#8217;T have residential design review.  Imagine that.  Maybe the rules are onerous; they certainly have been for many people for many years; but they are the rules that we have and until they change they should apply to everyone equally.</p>
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		<title>By: EBGuy</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/02/25/comment-why-berkeley-must-revisit-approval-for-new-home-construction-on-rose-street/comment-page-1/#comment-1784</link>
		<dc:creator>EBGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=3933#comment-1784</guid>
		<description>Can anyone cite chapter and verse from the BMC for story pole requirements (I finally gave up).  I did find this (which backs up the author&#039;s statement) at:
http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/uploadedFiles/Online_Service_Center/Level_3_-_General/I.ZoningProjectSubmittalRequirements_04-20-07.pdf
&lt;i&gt;Story Poles –
&lt;b&gt;Required&lt;/b&gt; for new buildings and stories in the &lt;b&gt;“H” District&lt;/b&gt;, or as determined necessary by the project planner.
Submit: Story poles must be installed prior to completion of any Mitigated Negative Declaration for the project or at least &lt;b&gt;one month prior&lt;/b&gt; to a scheduled public hearing date, which ever occurs first.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can anyone cite chapter and verse from the BMC for story pole requirements (I finally gave up).  I did find this (which backs up the author&#8217;s statement) at:<br />
<a href="http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/uploadedFiles/Online_Service_Center/Level_3_-_General/I.ZoningProjectSubmittalRequirements_04-20-07.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/uploadedFiles/Online_Service_Center/Level_3_-_General/I.ZoningProjectSubmittalRequirements_04-20-07.pdf</a><br />
<i>Story Poles –<br />
<b>Required</b> for new buildings and stories in the <b>“H” District</b>, or as determined necessary by the project planner.<br />
Submit: Story poles must be installed prior to completion of any Mitigated Negative Declaration for the project or at least <b>one month prior</b> to a scheduled public hearing date, which ever occurs first.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.berkeleyside.com/2010/02/25/comment-why-berkeley-must-revisit-approval-for-new-home-construction-on-rose-street/comment-page-1/#comment-1779</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 17:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.berkeleyside.com/?p=3933#comment-1779</guid>
		<description>Ironic that Kapor is listed as being on the advisory board of the Sunlight Foundation, which espouses &quot;making government transparent &amp; accountable&quot;.  Maybe he could arrange for them to meet with the Berkeley ZAB?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ironic that Kapor is listed as being on the advisory board of the Sunlight Foundation, which espouses &#8220;making government transparent &amp; accountable&#8221;.  Maybe he could arrange for them to meet with the Berkeley ZAB?</p>
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